Is there any way you can vector me through? Essentially, you have the right to be aware that you are in trouble after making a mistake. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. He probably should have his certificate revoked. I live under the approach and departure path to MIA, so I constantly have ATC audio playing in the background. ATC "OK, state reasons please". Stay connected with the latest travel, aviation, and credit card news. Official websites use .govA .gov website belongs to an official government organization in the United States. She refuses and he petulantly retorts back. For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. This is about aviation. This guy has absolutely no business being in command of an automobile, much less an aircraft in class B airspace. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. When Can I Apply For Student Pilot Certificate? The pilot will most likely face a license suspension and other penalties. Having been a pilot for over 50 years let me assure you this pilot will receive more than a you shouldnt do that anymore. However he failed to descend below the inner ring, that ring starts at 4500 ft MSL and goes up to 10000 ft MSL. Sincerely,Annjanette CumminsNational FOIA Coordinator for ANM, AAL & AWP RegionsFOIA Program Management Branch, AFN-400(206) 231-2034[AFN3_SignatureImage_2a]. This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions. Additionally while it is not required to end a conversation with ATC with the tail number, it is customary to do so for many reasons. Heres the full ATC audio, should you want to listen to it (when you listen to it youll appreciate just how angry this guys tone is): Ive never heard ATC audio where a pilot is so disobedient to instructions. The aircraft, N731NR, is registered to "Wife Approved LLC." Good for the controller for remaining reasonable. ATC Audio: Negligent Pilot Argues With Air Traffic Controller, I love listening to air traffic control audio, Not Good: Boom Overture Left Without Engines, Factorydesigns Innovative New Narrow Body Business Class Seat, Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. He exercised his PIC. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. Double that. To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is To cross LAS B airspace to get to HND is beyond my ability to grasp. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual . They also rechecked the examiner who tested him on his private he got suspended for a short time and had to recheck as a examiner. Thank you, number as soon as IP returns will have him call. This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation in this matter. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate. This leads the pilot to tell ATC to clear him. VFR altitude adjustable to an incorrect barometric pressure of 200'. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. The FAA should (and probably will) commence an emergency revocation of the pilot's certificate. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. This should help to give you a better understanding of pilot deviation and the risks that are associated with it. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. The report said the pilot was distracted adjusting the climate control on approach. Anything that may seem like a clearance but does not resemble those exact words is not a clearance. Instead he immediately gets defensive and then combative. Last thing I want flying over a populated area is some guy who thinks he owns the airspace, and willing to butt heads over it. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. You should be ashamed. The pilot was asked to leave, but decides to stay. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. Researching this pilot's flight with FlightAware and Flightradar24 a much clearer picture emerges. Student then bought a old Grumen Float plane thinking he would used it to fly back and forth to his lake home. The controller states that the pilot needs clearance to be in Bravo and to have requested clearance. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. But Id recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. 08:47PM EDT Montreal-Trudeau - YUL. Hundreds could have died. The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. Caller - this is xx. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Doxing is not right. In the next couple of weeks this is what he can expect: 1 Phone call with FAA to get pilots side of the story. For specific information, you may request a copy of . Talk to your psychotherapist. This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. An official website of the United States government Here's how you know. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he just kept right on going disregarding the safety of hundreds of people on the SWA planes. Sometimes its not possible to accommodate requests, either because of airport or supervisory/FAA edicts or because of systemic procedures or because of current workload. Once I had to reroute a general aviation pilot around weather to miss other traffic and he would not do it, Finally I was told to Once I had to reroute a general aviation pilot around weather to miss other traffic and he would not do it, Finally I was told to ask him "are you refusing an air traffic control clearance?" Don't get what you want, "burn down the system.". "Negative, November-one-romeo (N1NR)" would be the appropriately phrased response. "LAS: "N1NR, I told you to remain outside the Bravo". I didn't hear anything that I didn't find out of line. First, when aviation is involved we ALL give a f. People's lives are at risk. You have to request a Bravo clearance. To check up on N1NR 's claim that he requested clearance there was only one conversation between N1NR and ATC that was seven minutes prior. 3h 18m. He shouldnt be flying anywhere near Class B airspace if he doesnt understand the regulations. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. Even the simplest of deviations can make the difference between life and death, which is why it is so important to stick to the rules. He could have declared, he could have said he has a medical emergency, heck he could have said all sorts of things. Join FlightAware View more flight history Purchase entire flight history for NRL731. I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. Not a cool move on his part. Unless there is an emergency, no person should operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". "This guy might just be the most negligent pilot ever in terms of how he ignores instructions." The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. Thank you. For starters, she let him wander into bravo and didn't kick him out until he was well inside. The tower controller likely For everyone making your amazing judgment calls on the Henderson controller: Thank you for your pointing out you're anti-USA and somehow a pilot incursion into Class Bravo airspace has to do with "anti-mask BS". Thank you for your attached FOIA request. He did not damage anybody. This will help to ensure that you are fully prepared for whatever happens next. Go get him FAA!!! I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. I'm flying.". Some of the penalties of pilot deviation can be no action, a warning notice or letter of correction, certificate suspension, civil penalties, retraining, and even certificate revocation. These people keep us safe. 07-Oct-2022. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. The Cessna P210N stall speed is 67 knots. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. The requested documents will be made available to the general public, and this request is not being made for commercial purposes. would argue at times. Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. ). Sounds like he could have told the controller when given the phone number or when he called that it wasn't him if he wanted to. That's a serious violation right there to blatantly refuse an order by ATC. Indeed: N731NR - Aircraft Registration Information D DankVectorz Legendary Member FAA Messages 1,895 Facility N90 New York Tracon Jun 25, 2020 #6 Phillyman2633 said: What the cuck? Eg. It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. Mistakes happen. Looks like we found the co-owner of Wife Approved, LLC. Wnt to the FBO called the ATC sup from the day before had him and the controller involved from the previous flight, made student apologize for his behavior requested they critique student radio skill (he always had a cigar stub in his mouth, refused to remove it). He should have declared an emergency when denied entry into Bravo. Maybe on a subconscious level, you realize that there are departures off of Runway 27R as well. If you are in trouble for pilot deviation, the results could be very bad. He just flat out refused. I was really busy at the time and he took up much of my time and reduced the safe operation of the airspace. The likelihood of an actual air collision is low due to the training of "most" pilots, but you don't need a guy like this. I have to say the VASAviation guts who make these videos to an awesome job, its really cool how they combine the audio with the radar detail. Whether medical or not, whether deserving of sympathy or not, I hope this guy loses his license. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. no no, Im saying the process in place is unnecessary - this phone call is more like a call to an upset friend than what is supposed to a dispassionate, factual entity (ATC, FAA). Looks like he was below 6000 the whole time. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? There are published VFR approaches and having flowing the west side "water tower" I know they're trivial. Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? I am sure you are a "perfect angel". "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. From: twitter.com/journo_anon Public Records Requester, Subject: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. Is there an issue? You don't get to tar the rest of us with his brush. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. .. He never said he was unable to exit the Bravo due to terrain like he told the supervisor. It appears this pilot got sloppy without realizing he got sloppy. He flew into the Bravo airspace without a clearance, argued with the controller when she repeatedly told him to exit the Bravo, and continued his flight through as if he owned the airspace. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? It is quite apparent that the pilot is well versed in being an a**hole. She points out that he was not cleared to be there and repeats her order. There are reasons for the rules. Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. This guy is a class-one "all about me" narcissist who makes GA pilots look bad. You can listen along to ATC at liveatc.net and search for RDU in the upper left. She was far better to him than a lot of NY approach controllers are to good pilots on a good day (and I like NY approach, by the way). He responds that he's been "talking to her the whole time." Aviation SafetyOffice of Safety StandardsRegulatory Support DivisionAviation Data Systems Branch, In our continuing effort to improve the quality of service to our stakeholders, we would appreciate any comments you may have about our services and how to improve them. 2) If he claims some kind of medical condition, goodbye medical certificate. I hope this guy is ready to hear a lot of "unable VFR services" or "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved" when they recognize who he is again. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. A brasher warning is basically when you are given notice that you have made a mistake when you were piloting a plane. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986? Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". Especially for psychological problems, and probably especially if something's making you hypoxic below 6000 feet. Thanks to anyone who knows. It's hard to begin to defend such irrational and reckless behavior. He was wrong in what he did but I had to voice this opinion. Recognizing the mistakes, learning from them, and apologizing makes for more experienced PICs, and thus safer airspace. How Much Does It Cost To Become A Flight Instructor? What is more likely is ATC would instruct N1NR around Bravo. They have your lives in their hands. . Must have been a Kennedy. Id. In other words, his head was so far up his ass If you are training to be a pilot, or simply have an interest in the industry, a phrase that you might have come across is pilot deviation. What happened to this pilot? Honestly I'm not sure why. CTO (Control Tower Operator) with AS Degree in ATC. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. Get the stick out of your asses. Please refer to the above referenced number on all future correspondence regarding this request. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the coordinator(s) found in the letter. Laws don't matter anymore. He should AT LEAST be suspended, and frankly, given his behavior, I have no issue with his losing it. When other pilots are straight up calling you an asshole on frequency, and nobody but you is concerned by it, YOU fucked up. - file an IFR (instrument flight rules) flight plan that gives you the same priority as airline traffic. 866.835.5322 (866-TELL-FAA)Contact Us, United States Department of Transportation, Aviation Safety Draft Documents Open for Comment, Airport Coronavirus Response Grant Program, Legislation & Policies, Regulations & Guidance, Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators, Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations, Archived Quarterly Enforcement Reports (These reports date back to the first quarter of 1997. 24 votes, 30 comments. Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. What almost everyone here is saying is correct (save for the C who ragged on GA pilots - the kind that most ATPS once were in order to get to where they are today- B!). A copy of documents responsive to the request. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. There must be zero tolerance. No request for Bravo clearance is heard.While it is not known what N1NR said in the last exchange, this is the nature of radio communications as some transmissions do not go through.
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