how old is pam valvano

You can almost hear their noise in the quiet of Oakwood Cemetery, next to two headstones. And packed to the rafters Wednesday night with red-clad fans, their screams echoing off the steel I-beams of the ceiling, loud enough to leave a ringing in the ears hours after the final horn. One of the gold standards of tournament lore turns 30 years old this spring; North Carolina State, a sixth-seed with 10 defeats, over No. QB Young 5-10 1/8, 204 pounds at NFL combine. "True story! I was backstage, the next presenter on after Jimmy V, when he accepted the honor with an inspiring speech that touched us all and still does. Captured on national television for all to see was Valvano, rushing frantically onto the court, searching for someone . I became lost for a moment in the fight he showed because it reminded me of my fight, the same tenacious fight. Jim Valvano delivers his famous "Don't ever give up" speech at the 1993 ESPYS. Less than two months after that moment at the ESPY Awards, Valvano died at age 47. It means 'Go to Naples' as in go to hell. Pack coach Kevin Keatts was the man in red this night, donning a red blazer and matching red pants. That's it. Millions watched it, but not Pam Valvano. Alternative name that Pamela can use are Pamela Daly, Pamela Baly, P Valvano. She was only 33.. Boom! Pam Valvano Strasser (center) reacts after James T. Valvano Arena was officially dedicated before a game between N.C. State and Western Carolina, at Valvano Arena at Reynolds . Fight until the end. These are only a few of the examples of how Dick has provided hope to people in need. I want to give it next year! Normally you get in the locker room, I don't know, 25 minutes, a half-hour before the team takes the field. Lorraine Vitale was the voice I heard on the phone when I learned of Dick's diagnosis with lymphoma. Pamela has completed high school. Real-time updates and all local stories you want right in the palm of your hand. Everything was fine except that Coach K was a wreck. I'd like to think, I'm going to fight my brains out to be back here again next year for the Arthur Ashe recipient. What happened to Duke on the court, in hindsight, should not have come as a shock given the psyche of 19- and 20-year-olds. With his family by his side, Valvano died at Duke University Medical Center in Durham, N.C., said his attorney, Woody Webb. (renews at {{format_dollars}}{{start_price}}{{format_cents}}/month + tax). Jim Valvanos income source is mostly from being a successful Actor. The affect his return has had on Duke players cannot be underestimated and best illustrates the impact one great college coach can have on his players. I said to Jimmy, 'On national TV! It may not save my life. Jim Valvano, once nicknamed "Mr. Defense," scored 1,122 points in his college basketball career at Rutgers University. He was bigger than life. ", Pam Valvano Strasser, Jim Valvano's widow and chairwoman of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: , money, salary, income, and assets. Kids are affected and impacted by that kind of stuff.. He died on April 28, 1993 in Durham, North Carolina, USA. It was the Wolfpacks annual Heritage Game at Reynolds, but this had a different, special meaning to it. Mickie Krzyzewski, Wife K, could stand it no more. Donors raised $5 million to put the coachs name on the area, part of a $35 million renovation project at Reynolds Coliseum. He created something with the V Foundation where even though he was not here physically, he was always 'becoming.' He was a proud man, didn't want to take morphine. Bob Valvano, another basketball coach, and Nick Valvano were his two younger brothers. On Jan. 6, he stumbled out of bed, shaved, then crawled back under the covers. It means 'Go to Naples' as in go to hell. If you think about the information we had then compared to what we have now, it's amazing what that speech has meant. Its a unique night, said N.C. State athletics director Debbie Yow. There was even speculation that Krzyzewski had contracted AIDS. I don't know how much I have left, and I have some things that I would like to say. We will update Jim Valvano's Height, weight, Body Measurements, Eye Color, Hair Color, Shoe & Dress size soon as possible. He was an actor, known for ESPN: NCAA Basketball (1979), The Cosby Show (1984) and ABC Sports: World League (1991). "I think as a coach, you're always thinking about how to get better -- not what you've done -- and basically that's what Jim was saying: You're always 'becoming.' Coach Jim Valvano's acceptance speech for the Arthur Ashe Courage and Humanitarian Award was that kind of moment. After the speech Johnny Carson had called him, he had been on the show a few times, and he said, 'I didn't see the speech live, but I saw the speech. Jim Valvano, once nicknamed "Mr. Defense," scored 1,122 points in his college basketball career at Rutgers University. But Houston came out in a surprise 1-3-1 zone, and all the plans went kablooey. 19-year-old charged with murder. The very first time you stood in the locker room to give a pep talk. "But when it actually happened, I was out walking in the hall.''. I had to go out and walk the halls and rub the wolf. He also talks on radio shows about the sport. Then shelter shared desperate plea, What to Watch Friday: Dateline and 20/20 update Murdaugh murder trial coverage. Pam Valvano Pamela Valvano Pam Weinstein Albano V Pamela Valvano S Pamela. I was coaching at Rutgers University. Pamela Valvano's birthday is 05/29/1960 and is 62 years old. Ashe died in February 1993 before he could receive the award named for him.Recipients of the Arthur Ashe Courage and Humanitarian Award "reflect the spirit of Arthur Ashe, possessing strength in the face of adversity, courage in the face of peril and the willingness to stand up for their beliefs no matter what the cost. ", Mike Krzyzewski, head coach, Duke basketball: It's so important to know where you are. On Jan. 22, he told his team he would not return that season. Based in the Triangle, the nonprofit organization has given out $225 million in cancer research grants. ", Shaun Livingston, retired NBA guard: 11 seed Virginia Tech and No. I see Lou Holtz here. It was a first wobbly step back. And in the book, Lombardi talked about the first time he spoke before his Green Bay Packers team in the locker room, and they were perennial losers. The Wolfpack had to capture the ACC Tournament to even get a spot in the NCAA bracket and won three games by a combined 11 points. Dick never misses an opportunity to share the essential research that is being funded by The V Foundation. Discover today's celebrity birthdays and explore famous people who share your birthday. "Take time every day to laugh, to think, to cry,'' it reads. You pull them right out. And its motto is, "Don't give up don't ever give up.". About Pam Valvano is an American. "I want you to tell me something good," Dick Vitale insisted each time he called to check on my late husband, Jim Valvano, during his cancer treatment. View the profiles of people named Pam Valvano. And, you know, it's just about fighting. But his forced departure from N.C. State in 1990, brought about by allegations of NCAA wrongdoing and academic improprieties within the program, made for a bitter exit. He mostly covers basketball games. ", Dick Vitale, Hall of Fame commentator: An NCAA investigation produced eight allegations, which eventually were reduced to three violations--selling tickets, selling basketball shoes, lack of institutional control--by the NCAA Committee on Infractions. One thing he proved is that hes going to fight for us, senior guard Chris Collins said. "He died before his time," Pam Valvano said Wednesday at a hearing for Agnes Yencho, the 83-year-old driver of the vehicle that killed Valvano. Jim Valvano's net worth I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. Inducted into the National Italian American Sports Hall of Fame in 2004. With Coach K back, Duke is 4-0 and ranked 12th nationally with a team supposedly weakened by the loss of last years senior leaders, Cherokee Parks and Erik Meek. "This is the most memorable part for me. And those three things are going to carry on forever. Residents of 5 Ashby Crt, Manalapan Township, NJ 07726-1709 include Pamela. "I never anticipated what he was going to do -- I knew how sick he was, I had to carry him on the stage -- I thought he was going to simply accept the award and sit down. Bob Valvano is a sportscaster who works for ESPN2, ESPN Plus and ESPNU. Two killed in wrong-way wreck on Interstate 40. Where is this great coach? She has also remained active in the V Foundation, raising money to fight cancer, although it's hard if she calls the office and is put on hold because of the recording that automatically plays during the wait time. "I think I remember the day that [the speech] actually happened most. "He was such a great advocate for cancer research. Coach K had already returned in triumph, having led Duke to three victories and the Great Alaska Shootout championship last weekend. So how does the same cast of characters pull off such an Alaska sweep? Relationships Pam Valvano was previously married to Jim Valvano (1967 - 1993). "It got to be superstition," she said. Facebook gives people the power to. I did that. ACC mens basketball tournament bracket is set. He was Rutgers senior athlete of the year in 1967, leading the Scarlet Knights to a third-place finish in the National Invitation Tournament. But once he got into announcing and once he got diagnosed with cancer, I found a relationship that I've never had with anyone else and we became -- really -- brothers.". Charles, a bus crash victim in 2011. ", Mike Krzyzewski, head coach, Duke basketball: Prep Rally is devoted to the SoCal high school sports experience, bringing you scores, stories and a behind-the-scenes look at what makes prep sports so popular. Juvenile shot in the back, critically injured outside convenience store in Winston-Salem, Two Things: Victim's family not surprised by no show; hospital wars in Greensboro and money well spent. We should do this every day of our lives. Jim Valvano, the former North Carolina State basketball coach whose life was a bittersweet mixture of triumph and controversy, died Wednesday morning after a yearlong bout against bone cancer. I said, "That's beautiful." Whether were the 112th team in the country or 12th, were neither. Valvano, who was born on March 10, 1946, in New York City, was a three-sport star at Seaford High on Long Island. Even his loafers sported a red Wolfpack logo. Im conditioned to do that.. Just the emotion and passion behind that speech that's gonna be a classic forever. It was amazing he said that in the speech and amazing it came true. "Just think what was happened in 30 years,'' she said. You get ready. "There are 16 million cancer survivors in the U.S. today -- and growing. Finally it was left to Whittenburg to put up a 30-foot prayer, though he has occasionally tried to sell the idea it was a pass. They were brought together by a common passion for basketball, but our bonds have strengthened over the near 30 years that have passed. Like as a coach, there's no way we are going to win without big-time players, and basically Jim was saying, 'Hey, everybody, I just got the No. Pamela was born and raised in New York and after Jim graduated from Rutgers University she married Jim and became Jim's wife. You got a lot, hey, V F a Napoli, buddy. Sometimes sports becomes a moment in time that reaches far beyond the X's and O's. "I love you" was spoken before hanging up, and we made plans to meet for dinner in the coming weeks. "The adrenaline starts, and that's what happened when he had the flu before the national championship game.''. Jim Valvano was born on March 10, 1946 in New York City, New York, USA. Head basketball coach at the following schools: Johns Hopkins University, 1968-1969; Bucknell University, 1972-1975; Iona College, 1975-1980; North Carolina State University, 1980-1990. That's the lowest I've ever seen Dick Vitale since the owner of the Detroit Pistons called him in and told him he should go into broadcasting. It was the same group of players, but not the same team. Spotlessly clean. More about Pam Valvano edit Dating History But he wanted it to be emotional, so it would be brief. Ten minutes, he's still not there. 3 is you should have your emotions moved to tears, could be happiness or joy. You got a lot. He is emotional when speaking about the love and support he continues to receive. When doctors said it would take six weeks to recover from back surgery on Oct. 21, 1994, Krzyzewski pretended he was listening. They remember Valvano running onto the court, looking for someone to hug after Dereck Whittenburgs long jump shot came up short only for the ball to be caught and laid in by teammate Lorenzo Charles at the buzzer for the winning points of the 1983 NCAA championship. I always have to think about what's important in life to me are these three things. Finally I said, "Gentlemen, all eyes on me." I was coaching at Rutgers University. Thirty years later, Whittenburg has spent time in coaching and helped produce an ESPN documentary on 1983 that will air on Selection Sunday. Not yet, not yet, family, religion, Rutgers basketball. But it is a long title: James T. Valvano Arena at Reynolds Coliseum. You never knew what to expect, and so when I heard that, I hear it from two different ways, and when I hear it from the basketball way, I smile. I go to knock the doors open just like Lombardi. I've been to The ESPYS twice -- no, three times. I'd like to thank the V Foundation and ESPN for my consideration, as well as for all of the incredible work they do for cancer research. But like Jim would say, you have to dream. Three days later, Valvano was back at work as a member of ABCs broadcast team for the Duke-North Carolina game at Chapel Hill, N.C. As always, he was greeted with an ovation. She has since remarried, and endured the anguish of one of her daughters battling, and surviving, breast cancer. Now I look at where I am now, and I know what I want to do. But try if you can to support, whether it's AIDS or the cancer foundation, so that someone else might survive, might prosper and might actually be cured of this dreaded disease. For Jim to be that forceful and that dynamic that night while suffering from cancer more than anybody knew was nothing short of remarkable. It's something they should continue to show forever to honor him and the cause. "The advice to 'think, laugh and cry' every day applies to all of us 25 years later, as it will 25 years from now. Pam Valvano Strasser, Jim Valvano's widow and chairwoman of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: I got it, I got it. We need your help. But as it was said on the tape -- and I also don't have one of those things going with the cue cards, so I'm going to speak longer than anybody else has spoken tonight -- that's the way it goes. We all lost a dear friend today, Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski said in a statement. "This story brings back the David and Goliath story, how you can believe, and anybody can win, and you can overcome. To get your emotions going. , Arthur Ashe Courage and Humanitarian Award recipient in 2013. , former Rutgers teammate and co-captain and former chair emeritus of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: , Jim Valvano's widow and chairwoman of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: , former Rutgers teammate and co-captain and board chairman emeritus of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: , 2018 Jimmy V Award recipient, Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterback: Arthur Ashe Courage and Humanitarian Award, Time is very precious to me. He said, "All eyes on me.". "After 30 years,'' he said, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it.''. '", Bob Lloyd, former Rutgers teammate and co-captain and board chairman emeritus of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: Im realistic about my team, Krzyzewski said. So here's what I did. His brothers' names are Bob and Nick. When is your favorite team playing? They're 19. Sports is sports -- until it isn't. He's being a coach right now, and he's being himself and trying to figure out how he's going to win and, God darn it, he was able do that. His team wondering, where is he? The Blue Devils would be a perimeter team, soft in the middle. Lombardi, what he said was he didn't go in, he waited. He got all the quotes himself. I would say, 'Don't give up, don't ever give up,' even if we didn't have it, but I can believe that even more knowing we were assembling this amazing team Just God bless that 'recruit.'". Do you think you can do that here? Casey said. It was the fulfillment of every boyhood dream. On March 4, 1993, Dick Vitale introduced Jim as the recipient of the Arthur Ashe Courage Award at the inaugural ESPYS. That was like admitting it was over, and he was going to fight. He was considered a natural for the medium, given his spontaneity, humor and vast knowledge of the game he loved. Valvano's daughter battles cancer By ABC11 Monday, August 18, 2008 RALEIGH Right after the Jimmy V Celebrity Golf Classic in 2005, Jamie Howard learned she had breast cancer. Determined to publicize the need for cancer research, Valvano started a vocal and spirited national campaign to raise funds and awareness. To me, there are three things we all should do every day. Time is very precious to me. If you are able, please support cancer research by visiting V.org/donate. She probably got the gene from her dad, but because we knew of the gene, we were able to do the right testing and treatment for her. with ESPN's support, which means what? In the 1983 NCAA championship game, Dereck Whittenburg missed the shot and Lorenzo Charles made the dunk to win the game. Pack coach Kevin Keatts, fresh off the 100th victory of his career, dressed for the game in red-and-black loafers, red slacks and red suit jacket over a white shirt. I rode on the plane up today with Mike Krzyzewski, my good friend and wonderful coach. He served several schools and colleges. He definitely wanted to coach again but, of course, he got sick. ", Bob Lloyd, former Rutgers teammate and co-captain and board chairman emeritus of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: They remember the charismatic story-teller who led the Pack to seven NCAA Tournaments in his 10 seasons. Speech No. Mike said no, that 2:30 was practice time. For two hours, he talked about Valvano, whom he had come to think of as an older brother. "I remember when Jim Valvano was the first recipient of the Arthur Ashe Courage award, and I was standing backstage. "We were in the hotel room all day long, and he had fever and everything else. In January 1989, Valvanos program came under scrutiny after allegations of wrongdoing appeared on the dust jacket of the then unpublished book, Personal Fouls, by Peter Golenbock. He had a dream and look what happened. The image of Dick Vitale and Mike Krzyzewski helping him navigate the steep flight of stairs embodies the power of friendship. I remember a number of occasions, once he called me to his room across from the studio we were working at the next night. ", Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota Timberwolves center: 14 Notre Dame on Wednesday at 9:30 p.m. in Greensboro. Valvano had a successful coaching career with multiple schools, most notably at North Carolina State University. Against all odds, Jimmy V's NC State men's basketball team won the 1983 NCAA Division I championship. There is no blame. I coached against him for 15 years, and I always have to think about what's important in life to me are these three things. ", Bob Lloyd, former Rutgers teammate and co-captain and board chairman emeritus of the Jimmy V Foundation for Cancer Research: (10:23). Inducted into the North Carolina State University Athletics Hall of Fame in 2012 (inaugural class). I said, fine. Bob Valvano, another basketball coach, and Nick Valvano were his two younger brothers. People just gravitated to us.''. Thanks in part to the play of center Jeff Ruland, the Gaels won 51 games during Valvanos last two seasons. All eyes on me. North Carolina State dictated the pace, and a seven-point Houston lead vanished, helped by missed Cougar free throws. Yencho, of Oneida, pleaded guilty Wednesday to . Jim Valvano was born on 10 March, 1946 in New York City, New York, USA, is an Actor. You know, you just have to fight. He was apprehensive about giving the speech because he was afraid of getting too emotional, saying, 'I might cry.' While his full head of hair and unflinching positivity camouflaged the true scale of his illness, Valvano's cancer was quite serious. Who is Pam Valvano dating? And it's very important. Several of Valvanos players were at Wednesdays pregame ceremony before the Pack defeated Western Carolina 100-67. The Italian that he was, he says, 'What a typical WASP. He played basketball, soccer and golf. 3h Tim MacMahon. The first ESPYS. You should spend some time in thought. His methods were unconventional. But this is a rare place to sense the possibilities of the NCAA Tournament, on a shady rise in Oakwood Cemetery, between two gravestones but 20 yards apart. "[That speech will always be] legendary, for sure. As fast as they were buried, the Blue Devils have returned to the national spotlight. NHL trade deadline: Winners and losers, including the Bruins, Devils and Bruce Boudreau? "I remember the first time that I heard the speech. They remember the four Sweet Sixteens and two Elite Eights. Casey was so overjoyed, he hugged Valvano, then kissed him, too. Lorenzo Charles grabbing Dereck Whittenburg's desperation airball and slamming home the winner at the buzzer. Valvanos success at Iona attracted the attention of Willis Casey, then North Carolina States athletic director. He is a member of famous Actor with the age 47 years old group. North Carolina State stacked upset upon upset, made Valvano's cry of "survive and advance'' its creed, and became national darlings along the way. He gave the world words that have transcended sports and still reverberate. Hed have gone with The V or The Jimmy V.. I never lost a coach before, and to have a guy who literally gave me the life that I live now, it was an amazing experience to go through that with him. 1y Pam Valvano Strasser. Coach Holtz, who doesn't like the very first job you had? My job is to understand that all year.. In some ways, I feel there was some divine intervention there. He had one goal in mind: victory over cancer. Jim Valvano delivers his famous "Don't ever give up" speech at the 1993 ESPYS. Pam Valvano (6 August1967 - 28 April1993)( his death)( 3 children). Click highlighted text to view annotation. The award is inspired by the life that Ashe lived, using his fame and stature to advocate for human rights, although at the time, those positions may have been unpopular and were often controversial. How old was Jimmy V when he died? Those are the three things that I try to do every day. During 10 seasons under Valvano, North Carolina State was 209-114, making eight NCAA tournament appearances and winning two Atlantic Coast Conference titles. He then went on to coach the freshman team at Rutgers, which eventually led to his most notable coaching feat: leading North Carolina State to the national championship in 1983. He is a multiple national award winner and was named 2011 California Sportswriter of the Year by the National Sportswriters and Sportscasters Assn. Pam Valvano nursed her husband through the darkest days of his cancer and still remembers how ill he was on March 4, 1993, the day he delivered his famous never-give-up speech at the ESPY. Morant to miss two games after video with gun. And just the other day, she pulled out the old pin to help North Carolina State get through another close victory. I want to bring it back on the front table. How beautiful. I almost broke my arm. And its a great legacy., Wonderful, Cremins said. Valvano Strassers late husband, former coach Jim Valvano, led N.C. State to the 1983 NCAA championship. What to know about daylight saving time in NC, Goofy dog had no adoption inquiries for months. She has been cancer-free for 12 years. Sign up for our newsletter to keep reading. And his real legacy is in fighting cancer. People think I have courage. Ricky Price, who scored 10 points in Wednesdays victory, has a simpler explanation what is happening under Krzyzewski. If you laugh, you think and you cry, that's a full day. Jim Valvano was a famous basketball coach who passed away. And no matter what the cards are dealt to you, you never complain, never get disappointed, never hang your head. I was looking for hope, I was looking for strength, I was looking for someone who had done 'it' before. What no one knew at the time was that Jamie Valvano, who was 21 when her father died, had inherited a genetic mutation from. Before moving to Pamela's current city of Englewood, CO, Pamela lived in Aurora CO and Centennial CO. Other names that Pamela uses includes Pamela Sue Valvano, Pamela S Valvano, Pam Valvano, Pam S Valvano and Pam S Weinstein. Also learn how He earned most of Jim Valvano networth? (Photo by Joe Schildhorn/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images) Get personalized pricing by telling us when, where, and how you want to use this asset. Chris Dufresne was the Los Angeles Times national college football/basketball columnist from 1995 to 2015. Everybody knows that. Jim's speech. Valvano was found to have cancer last June, shortly after complaining of pain in his groin area. 1993. Pete Gaudet, a restricted-earnings assistant making $16,000, took over as interim coach and stood by helplessly as Duke plummeted. Well, this is the first one I ever gave, and I read this thing. But if I told you it's 10 times the amount that goes in to cancer research, I also told you that 500,000 people will die this year of cancer, and I also tell you that one in every four will be afflicted with this disease. We all do. With his team sluggish and losing grip on a nine-point halftime lead, Krzyzewski ignited the Blue Devils when he was called for a technical with 15:25 left. I'm going to work as hard as I can for cancer research and hopefully, maybe, we'll have some cures and some breakthroughs. There also was Valvanos incredibly moving speech at the 10-year reunion of the 83 team at Reynolds, when he was dying, with just a few months to live, telling Wolfpackers Nothing can happen if not first a dream and Dont ever give up.. Two people have been shot and killed in downtown Winston-Salem. It may save my children's lives. . He always said, 'It's like me trying to motivate you, Bob! Your California Privacy Rights/Privacy Policy. Editor's note: Pam Valvano Strasser was the wife of the late Jim Valvano and is the mother of their three children. While the head coach at NC State, his team won the 1983 NCAA Division I men's basketball title against improbable odds. It wasnt as though the team wasnt trying under Gaudet. an old friend. Jimmy V hasn't been forgotten, though; his name, his inspirational words, and, perhaps most importantly, his foundation still live on today. Time has had its way with the North Carolina State fairy tale of '83. While sports awards shows could be exciting in theory, they rarely turn into must-see TV. The moment seemed to define his personality and, in the process, transformed the son of a teacher and basketball coach from Queens, N.Y., into a national celebrity. "He was a great game coach, coaching by the . "Gentlemen, we'll be successful this year if you can focus on three things, and three things only. At times, Krzyzewski had five guards in the lineup. Coach K is back and so, apparently, is Duke. His brothers' names are Bob and Nick. A man upset with his order at a Little Caesars in Winston-Salem fires gun at an employee; no one is injured. It shook me up, this grown man, punching walls and his tears. Pam Valvano boyfriend, husband Pam Valvano American edit Relationships 1 total Children 3 children Pam Valvano dating history Who is she dating right now? He was an English major, a very smart guy, incredibly intelligent. Jim personally asked Dick and Coach K to serve on the board of directors for The V Foundation to further the mission to cure cancer. He was previously married to Pam Valvano. For the first time in recent memory, Duke was without a dominant big man, having to make do with Newton, a skinny 6-10 junior. Gaudet elected not to return as an assistant this season, but remains in the athletic department as a teacher. Because I want to win the national championship, Valvano said. '", Mike Krzyzewski, head coach, Duke basketball: 4 UCLA beats No. "Jim was always great in end-of-game situations, and he would always improvise. Pamela Valvano Strasser was the wife of the late legendary basketball coach Jim Valvano and is the mother of their three daughters, Nicole, Jamie and LeeAnn. Login He is married to Darlene and has two sons from the marriage. anyone, to embrace. If you dont think a great coach makes a difference to a team, think again.

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